Lee, I completely agree with you. Personalized search definitely changes the game, but I still think that even then your "classic" ranking will still reflect your "reach" on that keyword, be it personalized or not.
Great thoughts you bring up, as usual. Thanks for maintaining a fantastic blog!
Jennifer Laycock
· 2 years ago
Good points Lee and good thoughts to bring up. Been thinking about this myself over the last year or two.
Maybe we're no longer search engine marketers or search engine optimizers. Maybe now we're WVO's...website visibility optimizers?
Adam Audette
· 2 years ago
@Jennifer - how about Internet marketers.
Great points you bring up, Lee. I agree there's lots left out of the picture with ranking reports - including all the examples you list. Google just takes such a massive piece of the overall pie that (usually) these other channels don't make a considerable difference to the overall traffic picture.
(btw you have a typo in your title)
ahmed
· 2 years ago
i think that,s great.
Simon Wharton
· 2 years ago
I'm pretty much in agreement when you're talking to an educated audience. But many audiences youhave to deal just don't get it. They want to see rankings. They want to get that Google ranking despite best efforts to focus them on ROI.
If you move beyong Mom and Pop for Ranking reports, what's the industry standard?
David Wallace
· 2 years ago
Very good points, Lee. My company has been in the process for the last few years of trying to steer clients away from the old static rankings reports and into much more robust web analytic reporting. We prefer ClickTracks as a standard solution.
However it is amazing to me how many clients are still interested in "rankings." Despite all the personalization, not to mention all the additional traffic sources that are available, many still want to know "where they are ranked in Google." Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of advanced clients who want to measure traffic and growth as opposed to some static position in a search engine. However there are still plenty that have yet to evolve into that thinking.
Randy Duermyer
· 2 years ago
Good points, Lee, although I must say the whole concept bothers me. Just when I think I found the way to get more traffic out of Google - poof! All gone. In many ways, disheartening to say the least, but we'll all learn and - hopefully - continue to grow and prosper from these developments. Especially disheartening since I recently bit the bullet and agreed to buy WPG as a new client was used to it with their last SEO and more or less insisted it was their way or the highway. Just another SEO challenge for us to face, I guess.
Yuri
· 2 years ago
Sure, social media is high. But it doesn't mean that good ole long-term search-engine traffic should be neglected. They are a good bonus to social marketing, too.
Of course, ranking reports are not that needed any more.
Brandon
· 2 years ago
Good points Lee. I'm looking forward to whats up after all the social bookmarking or actually seeing how far that will go. We are close to being globally connected to one another, just like that justin.tv kid..
jack
· 2 years ago
I think you're right. Traffic and especially conversion is far more important. If you're ranked number 1 in every search engine, but the number 2 is more relevant, people won't go. And if what you are selling is trash or poorly described/displayed, you won't get conversions. Personally, I am interested in traffic, not rankings for my site...
Halfdeck
· 2 years ago
Keyword research, ranking, targeted traffic, and conversions all go together. But a majority of mediocre SEO companies will move away from ranking because it is one thing they cannot consistently deliver. Many SEOs also focus on online marketing as a whole and see search traffic as just one piece of the puzzle.
Daniel R
· 2 years ago
Rankings will persist for some time, its easy to understand. One thing agencies need to do, is to roll out Marketing Analytics as a standard component, replacing ranking reports. We (agencies) need to be aggressive on this.
As for: "Do ranking reports with standard search engines provide any insight? For now, they do offer some value, but marketers would do well to further focus on visitor engagement and corresponding metrics."
Yes. They are the only one of few ways, we can do competitive reporting, until we have more affordable Hitwise-like reporting.
Its good to do ranking reports for clients and their competitors to get a rough (and I cant stress 'rough' enough) visibility comparison.
But remember, search Engine Rankings are not the only thing that is dead. So is typical SEO Dead. Why?
I was in the same room when said person dropped the Web Position Gold quote. I actually had to think how long it had been since I heard that term. Wow, it took me back to the days of AltaVista and easy rankings.
Lee Odden
· 2 years ago
Hey Dan, that was interesting wasn't it? I think he was a sales guy, not someone involved with production, but still, how embarrassing.
Terry Reeves
· 2 years ago
Ranking reports will continue to be around for awhile. Clients want to see where they are and where you put them. It helps to justify the cost.
A good seo will explain all of the other marketing possibilities and push for inclusion. This helps both bottom lines and provides an opportunity to educate. Most clients know very little about seo and literally nothing about social media. A little education will go a long way, especially if you are able to deliver some results the client was not anticipating.
As to personalization, there will always be the "mega sites" that are trusted and well aged for specific searches. I search for things I know little or nothing about so there is no history there to personalize. There are quite a few elements that will need to be in place before personalized search is as accepted as current search. I see personalized search having the greatest affects on localized searches as opposed to broad searches.
Personally, I see personalized search as a means to additional markets not currently being sought. The era of local seo is about to blossom.
Gray
· 2 years ago
SER is not dead, but new opportunities await. Del.icio.us, Technorati, Wikipedia.
Steve Neale
· 1 year ago
What will be interesting is that if the search engines implement personalized search then will developers implement the same thing for the actual websites.....if so, how on earth will that marry up, and would that trigger spam problems with the search engines because in theory one thing is presented to the engines, another to a user (standard violation) Consider a site that sells partywear. Googlebot is 'depersonalized' and sees a plain generic homepage with nav to all areas from posh frocks to gangsta gear. If Jane Doe arrives who's id'd as female, wealthy, aged 60+ and the site is dynamically built for her profile (posh party wear, posh wording, contemporary graphics) that is different than if John Doe visits whos 16 and profile brings up a 'street' type site... That would be great for the site to make sales but a mare for engines to rank methinks.
All Comments
Great thoughts you bring up, as usual. Thanks for maintaining a fantastic blog!
Blog response: http://www.searchengineguide.com/searchbrief/se...
But here's my main point...
Maybe we're no longer search engine marketers or search engine optimizers. Maybe now we're WVO's...website visibility optimizers?
Great points you bring up, Lee. I agree there's lots left out of the picture with ranking reports - including all the examples you list. Google just takes such a massive piece of the overall pie that (usually) these other channels don't make a considerable difference to the overall traffic picture.
(btw you have a typo in your title)
If you move beyong Mom and Pop for Ranking reports, what's the industry standard?
However it is amazing to me how many clients are still interested in "rankings." Despite all the personalization, not to mention all the additional traffic sources that are available, many still want to know "where they are ranked in Google." Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of advanced clients who want to measure traffic and growth as opposed to some static position in a search engine. However there are still plenty that have yet to evolve into that thinking.
Of course, ranking reports are not that needed any more.
As for: "Do ranking reports with standard search engines provide any insight? For now, they do offer some value, but marketers would do well to further focus on visitor engagement and corresponding metrics."
Yes. They are the only one of few ways, we can do competitive reporting, until we have more affordable Hitwise-like reporting.
Its good to do ranking reports for clients and their competitors to get a rough (and I cant stress 'rough' enough) visibility comparison.
But remember, search Engine Rankings are not the only thing that is dead. So is typical SEO Dead. Why?
1. Because SEO must now include optimizing for Yelp, Del.icio.us, YouTube, Google Local etc
http://www.emergence-media.com/2007/05/seo-is-d...
2. Because SEO encompassing too many things that have little to do with search: PR, Usability, Branding, etc
http://www.emergence-media.com/2007/02/seo-as-w...
A good seo will explain all of the other marketing possibilities and push for inclusion. This helps both bottom lines and provides an opportunity to educate. Most clients know very little about seo and literally nothing about social media. A little education will go a long way, especially if you are able to deliver some results the client was not anticipating.
As to personalization, there will always be the "mega sites" that are trusted and well aged for specific searches. I search for things I know little or nothing about so there is no history there to personalize. There are quite a few elements that will need to be in place before personalized search is as accepted as current search. I see personalized search having the greatest affects on localized searches as opposed to broad searches.
Personally, I see personalized search as a means to additional markets not currently being sought. The era of local seo is about to blossom.
Consider a site that sells partywear. Googlebot is 'depersonalized' and sees a plain generic homepage with nav to all areas from posh frocks to gangsta gear. If Jane Doe arrives who's id'd as female, wealthy, aged 60+ and the site is dynamically built for her profile (posh party wear, posh wording, contemporary graphics) that is different than if John Doe visits whos 16 and profile brings up a 'street' type site... That would be great for the site to make sales but a mare for engines to rank methinks.