Online Marketing Blog - Latest Comments in The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

paisley — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:40:40 -0000

i don't want to be a rockstar.. just respected among peers that are qualified to bounce ideas off of.

paisley does not go to the office.. actually i have to keep "paisley" and the person that works at my office as me separate... clients NEVER meet paisley.. they meet the director of internet marketing for my company.. (IF.. i need to be in the meeting, the VP of new biz, handles most clients just fine.)

if i could just have a close group of friends that i experiment with that would be great.. like SEOMoz..

besides.. having to write 6 articles a week for places like Wired, WSJ, business 2.0 interactive week, dallas business journal and be on the radio on 3 different stations twice a week, being on TV everytime (sometimes as much as 3 times a week), there was a big virus ourbreak or a new trend in bandwidth/shopping/internet crime kinda sucked.. and it got people asking me questions while i was eating at chili's etc.. i helped in meetings if people had seen me or heard my weeklies on the radio... but in 1996, people were not rushing to do SEO, they were just trying to geta website up, otherwise.. i prefer to experiment without rockstar status... and i learn a hell of a lot more sitting at my desk working on website and watching stats instead of having 3 press appointments in a day to prepare for.

after all i have played for a few times for 10,000 plus people in Ibiza at a DJ gig.. now that is the kinda rockstar that was fun...

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Robert — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:02:21 -0000

I agree 100% But mostly because I believe that having to pay 2 famous for a beer is a bit much.

But hey, I'm already famous... but mostly for the wrong reasons I guess ;)

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Patrick Ryall — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:12:50 -0000

@ Chris, what I am getting at Chris is not fame for fames sake, but to serve a purpose. Our company tag line (WEBRAND) is 'Leave Your Mark, 'Image is everything' is another tag line of ours, so in that context a little company fame does not hurt.

The company is getting the fame not me, this is how I want it as people go ohh WEBRAND I have heard of you, this brings us more business more credibility and ultimately me more money.

If the focus was on some key staff or me then your company becomes dependent on personal successes. A client may ask what happens if X leaves will I still get the best service etc. Or if the company was to be sold down the track, it is more dependent on the key people rather than the company.

I am all for company fame, which brings me personal freedom, you have to ask yourself why 'you' want fame? Do you feel insecure in some way.

Nearly any 'famous' person will tell you that that is the single hardest part to live with. Personally I don't like fame and money, just money.

Some personal fame is good, being selfless fame for instance Fred Hollows who devoted his life to curing blindness in remote areas.

Also do not confuse 'fame' with personal 'brand' they also are two separate entities. If fame and money are what you want, you still had better find a vehicle to get you there, or in 10 years you will still be looking for that elusive job description.

Let your successes bring you fame do not try and chase it or you may never catch it.

At the end of the day it is only my opinion, and youare entitled to yours as much as I am of mine.

have a B L O G G I N G good day!

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Melanie Phung — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:17:24 -0000

I just love the way a wallet full of famous feels in my back pocket. Is that so wrong?

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Chris Hooley — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:58:58 -0000

Oh Patrick, making the blanket statement that being passionate about being famous or making money is "shallow" is a little narrow don't you think? My thinking isn't "broken", I just don't think the same way you do.

I'm passionate about a lot of things. Finding a job that has the job description of "fame and money" is just ONE of those things!

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Lee Odden — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:50:34 -0000

rumblepup, that's a sweet tagline.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Patrick Ryall — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:20:06 -0000

Reply to Chris Hooley, Then I am afraid Chris your thinking is broken. You could have a goal as fame and money, shallow as it is but you could. This would still require a vehicle to get to fame and money as last time I looked fame and money was not a job description.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Robert Garcia — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:01:58 -0000

Lee, Awesome Post.

Jeez, after all these comments, I feel a little like a NeO come lately. ;)

When I started my marketing business, the first thing I did was work up my tag line, and I really and truly think that in both marketing and seo/sem, it still rings true.

"We're not famous. We make our clients famous."

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Chris Hooley — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:46:21 -0000

@ Patrick

But what if my heart and soul, my passion, IS in fame and money?

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Patrick Ryall — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:09:29 -0000

Greetings all, just to add my two sense it is a question of passion. If you talk to almost any hugely successful person a common response will be heard. I have never done it for fame or money it has been my passion to excel. Here lies one of the greatest secrets or tools to succeed be passionate.

If you are doing it for fame or money as your motivator then really you are destined to fail, you must have heart and soul in whatever you may be doing to succeed.

Most millionaires have been down and out many times, famous actors being picked up by chance after slugging away for ages.

Have a desire to succeed, be true to your passion this will breed you success. If you cannot be passionate about what you are doing than find what you can be passionate about.

Brilliant post Lee, a man passionate about what he does.

Take care all, I'm off to have a passionate surf at Bondi Beach :)

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Lee Odden — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:47:45 -0000

Great thread this turned out to be and somewhat challenging to follow ala Blackberry.

Paul-S the impetus for posting and asking the question came from a concern over real or perceived priorities of potential employees. For most agency seo consultants fame in our industry is not a practical goal and certainly not one that will get you hired.

Looking at the large amount of seo generated content that's out there, you can see pretty quickly that many people are trying very hard to be well known will no practical business reason behind it.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Paul-S — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:42:58 -0000

Bill, I am not the person to answer that question.

I'm trying to dig out from Lee why would a question be asked in the first place. Is it a question of guard what you have or is it a question of those making the assumptions [the wannabes] are growing.

If the latter is the case then is that not a knock-on effect of the industry growing. If so, how do you curtail those that proclaim from those that provide?

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Kieran — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:41:19 -0000

I also am not a fan of any sort of regulation or whatever you want to call it. I have seen groups that try to start that are started by the exact people we are talking about here!

Bottom line is you should do your research and take most of the SEO talk with a grain of salt. If you are a business looking for SEO work then find an agency or consultant who has real world experience working for or with well known companies and has proven ROI.

Just because someone has a blog and talks about SEO, that does not mean they know what they are talking about.

Ok, I am going to get off my soap box now.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Bill Kruse — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:31:10 -0000

Who are to be the regulators? I thought SEMPO was a joke when it started, all you needed to get in it was $200, not much of a qualification. There's some kind of loose British association but I looked at it a while back and it just seems to be a boys' club. Like in the playground, you can be in our gang if we like you. I mean, who cares?

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Paul-S — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:50:03 -0000

This has certainly turned into a tasty discussion, Lee.

You seemed to have struck a nerve with many commentators thinking along the same lines.

I'm all for each-to-their-own attitude (I had a great life teacher in my Grandma) and those that wish to seek fame without anything behind them will be found out.

Those that are gifted and clever with it shall rise under their own steam and admiration from their peers shall naturally ascend them to, what I like to term, the "Brand Status".

My question to you is, and I also asked this on Rand's post as well, do you feel it'll ever really quell?

There are many young aspiring wannabes joining the industry each month (never mind each year) who want a slice of the pie. How do you stop the tide? What does it take to de-peg the so-called "seo experts"?

In the far reaches of this post I can hear a quiet cry for regulation. A standard to drive the phony fame-seekers away.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Carrie Hill — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:02:34 -0000

@kieran
Which was my exact argument when I started tackling our site!

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Kieran — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:00:17 -0000

I understand what you are saying about “Too busy working on clients’ sites” however I would never work with an agency that didn't have their house in order. To me it says they either don't really understand SEO, dont care about SEO or are understaffed.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Carrie Hill — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:56:45 -0000

When I first started in online marketing a few years ago - there seemed to be a lot of excuse making for SEOs having poor (or old) opti practices on their own sites - "Too busy working on clients' sites" etc. My own company was guilty of that - and I always thought it was sort of a cop-out.

Now I wont say our website is perfect, but we're trying and making strides - and WOW is it better than it was :)

This has been one of the most enjoyable threads I've read in a long time - great content & great comments!

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Patricia Skinner — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:51:58 -0000

I agree with you Kieran. I've just been noticing this myself today. So many SEO websites in disarray.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Kieran — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:45:53 -0000

I agree. I am tired of people who have basic knowledge they got from a book coming off like they know everything about SEO. Just because you can talk a good game does not mean you can call yourself an "expert". I have been in this industry for 10 years have very few real search experts I look up to. Most people, whether they speak at SES, have a blog, talk it up on SEO sites or write articles talk a good game but in the end do not know jack about anything Perfect example, a person (I wont name) writes a column for a major marketing website - yet when you look at their companies website it is HORRIBLE in terms of basic SEO best practices.

You know who impresses me? The in-house or agency SEO experts at major corporations doing real work and getting real results. Stop talking to me about what you think - SHOW me.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Mark Pilipczuk — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:33:08 -0000

Thanks for the article. It's thought-provoking and echoed what I've been noticing. Like a few of the responders, I'm not a search professional. My background is in direct response marketing, and I learned my trade working for a company that was ruthlessly ROI-driven. You could either sell more stuff, to more people, more efficiently, for more money, or you were out.

In reading this post and doing some research on the SEO industry, I've been stuck by how much emphasis is placed on celebrity to the exclusion or diminution of ROI. The only thing my clients think about is "what's the ROI on hiring me?" And if they're not worrying about that, I tell them it's the only thing that matters. Forget how famous I am (I'm not at all). I make them money and they have me do more or I'm gone. Fair deal for all involved.

Fame is fine, but once the industry matures--and it will--the only thing that will matter is how much ROI you can deliver to the client.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Mark Alan Effinger — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:55:26 -0000

You know Lee, This falls into the Cult of Personality trough.

As Jim Collins stated in Built to Last, very few big celebrity CEO's build sustainable companies (past their tenure).

Ask any rock star. It's tough to build a business behind a star (save for Andy Warhol, Marc Kosabi and Steve Jobs).

The deal with SEO and Rock Star Status is it's multiple moving targets. You could be a star one day in getting clients to #3 on Google SERPs... then watch the Google Dance kick your butt.

Danny built a brand WAY before anyone suspected it would be a real trend (I was using NorthernLight when Danny started... a clue as to how far search has come).

Lee, you, Brandi, Danny, and a couple of dozen names come to mind in this space as "decision leaders". Marketing Experiments, Grok.com and Ralph Wilson...

Those of us leading the fray are constantly playing with and managing search, while still coloring inside the integrity lines.

Peer respect (what David McInnis achieved with PRWeb as a solid platform for enhancing search results) is a better goal. it means you're doing the right thing, the right way.

Great post, BTW. Always thought provoking...
Best,
Mark Alan Effinger
RichContent

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

SEO Design Solutions — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:42:27 -0000

Hi Lee:

First of all great post. There is definitely a fine line between sharing useful SEO information and giving the farm away. Somewhere in between all of those idioms and cliches is tons of research, thousands of hours of experimentation and the desire to gain recognition on some level for acquiring a degree of personal and financial success. It's just a matter of keeping your motives for publishing such content in the right place. I personally use blogging as a positioning tactic for our brand and services and naturally to offer value to those interested in SEO, but each person has their reasons.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Lee Odden — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 05:49:31 -0000

@David I agree on the Ken Jurina comment - I think it's the groovy glasses and the soul patch mostly.

@Chris, "Most of us marketers (and not just web marketers) are born to seek the spotlight" makes a lot of sense. Of course marketers are going to seek some spotlight - they're marketers after all and that's what marketers do. Good point.

Re: The Fallacy of SEO Celebrity

Chris Hooley — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:39:26 -0000

I wanted to be famous once or twice and all it got me was like 4 links and a few shots at conferences. It didn't affect my wallet one bit. Putting myself back into my work did.

On a related note, I wish I still blogged a lot so I was still more famous. My frail ego loves the fact that like 8 people know me and ACTUALLY THINK I AM SMART!

But seriously, this post is refreshing Lee. Thanks for injecting some level-headedness. Most of us marketers (and not just web marketers) are born to seek the spotlight, and it's still as funny to watch as it always was, especially now that us nerds are the ones doing it!